Business And Leadership, Ireland's Business News Service

A chartered accountant by profession, Sallins-born Charlie McCreevy has never been afraid to voice his views, whether as Minister for Finance from 1997 to 2004, or as Ireland’s EU Commissioner over the past five years. When we meet in his Dublin office, he is characteristically forthright about Ireland’s current difficulties, and about the doomsayers.

“There are two aspects to the Irish economic issues,” he says. “One is that there are issues we have to correct ourselves; the other is that we are a small player, very dependent on world economic circumstances, so the fact that there is a downturn in all world markets is going to impact heavily here. That, of itself, affects everything from the big multinationals to the regular small owner-operator, all the way down to the ordinary employee.

“I like to regard myself as a realist and a pragmatist,” he says, when I ask him about the gloomy mood prevailing in this country. “It is important in business, politics or life to face up to the realities, and certainly we have to do so here in Ireland, although I’m sure many people, not least the politicians, would prefer us not to.

“However, on the other side of the equation, there seems to be a desperate tone for many, many years in some of the Irish commentary, an attitude of ‘isn’t it terrible?’. It may be now, but even when things were very good some commentators seemed to be apologising that it was so good – that we were getting on so well.

“Maybe it’s on account of being hundreds of years under the British yoke, or maybe because we’re such a small country that everyone knows everybody else, but there’s an amazing attitude, going back 15 years, of moaning through the good times, and now saying: ‘We told you so, things are never going to improve’. Well they certainly will never improve if we all adopt that attitude!”

Note of optimism

McCreevy believes Irish businesspeople will pull us through this downturn. “The Irish are a creative and inventive race. We’ve survived everything over a long period of time, and the past few years have been good to us. We have a new generation now who look on the bright side of things; young people who have positive attitudes, young men and women who, over the past number of years, have started their own businesses.

“When I look around Europe, I see more Irish men and women starting their own businesses than in any other part of the continent. In some of the major European countries, they tend to think always in terms of big business; that you must be part of a big gung-ho firm that employs tens of thousands of people.

“Here in Ireland many of the businesses employ fewer than five people. There’s a remarkable number of people who have started companies in all types of niches in the market, everything from the service industries to technology – remarkable things.”

He believes this spirit of entrepreneurship – and not simply the oft-cited foreign direct investment – has been the driver of our success over the past years.

“What drove the Irish economy has been – yes, of course, the attractiveness of Ireland – but also all the businesses in the country, including those in the construction sector. It has been people getting up and doing it themselves.”

Supporting the risk-takers

This is something that needs to be encouraged and supported by Government, he says, and warns against any stifling of the risk-takers in the current climate. McCreevy’s own roots in private business have clearly not been forgotten.

“There seems to be this notion now that we should no longer take risks, but we wouldn’t have anyone employed if we didn’t,” he says, punctuating his speech with a fist on the desk.

“People in the public service should realise it’s the people in the non-public sector who take the risks – whether they’re starting a shop, a factory, building a few houses – they are the people who take the risks, make the profits, pay their taxes and the taxes go to fund the rest of us.”

I noted that in a recent speech in Carlow, McCreevy refereed to “the recent British media campaign against this country”, and I’m interested to see a public figure speak out on an issue that I’ve often heard discussed in private.

“As you’ve probably noticed, over my political career I haven’t been afraid to speak out and say what perhaps people are thinking but are more reluctant to say,” he laughs.

“The UK media have given us a hard time in recent years, but it reached a crescendo in recent months, so much so that some media figures were telling people to withdraw their money from Irish institutions. It’s not the kind of EU solidarity you’d hope for, nor is it very neighbourly. I wouldn’t rank it on the list of so-called things that have caused the Irish difficulties, but I think it is important to stand up and say it.”

European view

So, with Irish businesses under pressure and credit scarce, what has the Commission been doing to alleviate the current crisis?

McCreevy points to the fact that it was the Commission that helped co-ordinate the economic response of the 27 member states, culminating in the stimulus package of €5bn agreed in March.

“Each member state is responsible for its own economic policy, subject to the rules involved in being part of the euro, but the economic stimulus package we co-ordinated should be of benefit to all the EU countries, particularly to a small, open economy such as Ireland.”

He also highlights the extensive work underway at the Commission on keeping the single market open and developing it in terms of both goods and services.

“That is going to be of benefit to all the economies of Europe, but particularly to Ireland. Over the past 36 years, since joining the then EEC, I think it could be safely said that being a member of the EU has galvanised the Irish economy. It hasn’t been a smooth upwards graph the whole time, but certainly being part of a European trading zone – the opening up and growing of the markets – has been of enormous benefit to Ireland.”

On that note, I have to ask him about the reaction in Europe to Ireland’s ‘No’ vote on Lisbon.

“I may be unpopular in certain quarters for saying this, but I break it down into at least two areas. In the Brussels belt, ie the Commission and everyone attached to it – the public servants, the departments of foreign affairs and other departments of State that deal with Europe – there’d be an attitude of ‘wasn’t it a terrible thing Ireland did?’

“But then take the ordinary European, whether he or she is Italian, English or French, I somehow think they don’t get too excited about this at all. Because anytime they have been asked themselves by way of referendum on Europe they’ve said no too. It’s the politicians that get a little bit more excited about it.”

He says, in any case, Ireland has not suffered because of the ‘No’ vote. “Europe has been understanding of the present Irish economic and financial difficulties, but there are certainly people inside that initial group I mentioned who are upset. What I say to those people is: it’s a democracy. We have referenda on these things as laid down by our constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court. That’s the way we do our business in Ireland. And I don’t ever apologise for it.”

So does he feel Lisbon will be passed next time around? “I don’t know. I certainly think there will be a far more engaged campaign from the ‘Yes’ side because they know that they have to. I certainly hope we vote yes, but we are going to have to try to win the argument, because on the last occasion, the ‘No’ side won it. That is unpalatable for a lot of commentators out here, but what they did.

“It’s like sport, if you’re beaten by a team on the day, and you want to play them again, you need to think about why they were better than you the last time, and make changes or engage in a different way. I certainly hope it goes through, but it is going to entail everybody who wants a positive vote going out and doing something for it.”

Now approaching 60, McCreevy has suggested in recent press interviews that he doens’t see himself coming back to public life when he returns to Ireland in the coming months, but rather will look to the private sector. So, is he optimistic for Ireland’s future?

“I grew up in the Fifties and Sixties. The Ireland that exists now – there’s just no comparison. I believe the Irish people are ingenious at creating; at getting up and doing things. There seems to be a notion among some commentators that this is dreadful it’s going to get worse. Well, it will get worse if you adopt that attitude,” he continues. “Yes, we have to face up to realities; yes, we are having a difficult time, but now we need to get on with it.”

He doesn’t sound like a man ready to retire any time soon. Many will watch with interest what Charlie McCreevy does next.